Author Topic: Irc/Arvidl  (Read 1916 times)

Kitzy2011

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Irc/Arvidl
« on: May 20, 2013, 02:17:25 PM »
Alright.
I do not feel that players banned from the server should have the right to use irc.
They lost their chance to play here, and ban evasion is against the rules. In my opinion, the usage of IRC is just another form of ban evasion.
To be specific, I am referring to Arvidl, mainly, but also Vael and Milt, even if they don't use it much anymore. I don't feel that it's fair.
Frankly, Arvidl continues to be disrespectful and, shall we say, irritating.
I'd like something to be done about this. I have no idea what Tibs could or would do, but I'd appreciate it if they were gone.
Thanks.
Art is the weapon.

Fudge

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 03:18:42 PM »
From arv, with love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOo9a_UFTIE
  "sweden in a nutshell"

Rowen2003

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 03:28:46 PM »
At the moment, we can only IP ban offenders at the firewall level, to prevent them from accessing IRC (and obviously any other ssss.me resources).
I believe it is possible to enforce username/password login restrictions (or possible for moderators to have such accounts created, and regulars are guests?) where they are given access to ban/kick users who are being generally offensive/disrespectful, etc.
I have not been aware of Arvidl's continued presence on our server. However, there are some users who are attempting to redeem themselves from their past transgressions and would still like to maintain somewhat of a social relationship with the friends they've acquired over the years. I personally, do not see an issue with those kinds of users (case in point: iancj) who are still active around the community, but are not causing further problems.

Possible solutions to this problem include:
Submit request to Tibs to have offending IRC users IP banned on a case-by-case basis
Submit request to Tibs to require authentication to IRC.
Submit request to Tibs to require moderators to authenticate to IRC with elevated privileges.
Submit request that tibs change the port for IRC, and only have that information available to regular members and moderators.
Submit request that Tibs removes IRC.
Ignore the problem and hope that Arvidl grows up.

Seeing as how a majority of these solutions require intervention from Tibs ranging from a little work to possibly a lot of work, while Tibs is already swamped with actual work, we're likely going to just have to deal with Arvidl being Arvidl. I find that the best way to deal with children is to outright ignore them. Do not reply to anything he says at any time; eventually he will either freak out to the point where we will have very good justification for Tibs to permanently remove him, or he will get bored and leave.

Tibsfox

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 09:03:11 PM »

Tibsfox

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 09:08:17 PM »
Possible solutions to this problem include:

(no pain in ass) Submit request to Tibs to have offending IRC users IP banned on a case-by-case basis
(no it's supposed to be public) Submit request to Tibs to require authentication to IRC.
(security through obscurity is not security) Submit request that tibs change the port for IRC, and only have that information available to regular members and moderators.
(no) Submit request that Tibs removes IRC.

(maybe, this will need some work but is possible)
Submit request to Tibs to require moderators to authenticate to IRC with elevated privileges.

(best)
Ignore the problem and hope that Arvidl grows up.

Kitzy2011

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 04:37:48 PM »
Possible solutions to this problem include:

(no pain in ass) Submit request to Tibs to have offending IRC users IP banned on a case-by-case basis
(no it's supposed to be public) Submit request to Tibs to require authentication to IRC.
(security through obscurity is not security) Submit request that tibs change the port for IRC, and only have that information available to regular members and moderators.
(no) Submit request that Tibs removes IRC.

(maybe, this will need some work but is possible)
Submit request to Tibs to require moderators to authenticate to IRC with elevated privileges.

(best)
Ignore the problem and hope that Arvidl grows up.

Though I'd appreciate having something done about this, such as arv being banned from irc, I'll leave it up to you, Tibs, to choose how to proceed. As a part of the human race I'm sure that if you're not asked to do anything, such as banning arv, you won't. Which is fine. I wouldn't either.
As such, I shall submit to whatever my seniors choose to partake in as a decision, since I am inexperienced.
Thanks anyways, and I'll continue to do my best.
Art is the weapon.

Rowen2003

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »
In order to prevent Arvidl from accessing IRC, Tibs would have to perform one of the suggestions (or possibly one I didn't list) that I listed before.

Without making significant changes to how IRC is currently set up, or having Tibs constantly manage firewall bans, we can't just ban someone from IRC.

In Minecraft, bans are managed by either IP or username (most often, username). The reason we can use a username for banning purposes, is that because our server authenticates to Mojang's account servers. Mojang validates a user's authentication as genuine, and we allow them to connect. Before actually making a connection however, we check that genuine username against our (multiple) ban lists to see if that username has been banned, by checking it against our vanilla banlist, and then checking mcbans using our pre-configured approve/deny settings (our plugin talks to the mcbans server, and asks for global bans) then the plugin determines if that user meets the requirements to play here (doesn't have too many global bans).

This is a really long way of saying, IRC has none of these features enabled/configured for our system. The username is merely a desired username for the server. There is no form of authentication to validate you are who you say you are. So, our only form of banning someone would be IP banning; which the IRC server probably supports, but IP banning by nature is sloppy, and temporary (IP's change). We might be able to ban by MAC, but even that may not stop him (multiple devices, ability to change MAC's, etc). We would have to enforce some form of username/password authentication (for best results). Which would mean users would need usernames and passwords (which Tibs would have to manage/configure); or at least moderators with username/password, so that they can kick Arv every time they see him. However, not a lot prevents him from just changing his username and logging back in as arv2.

Considering the amount of damage arv is causing, versus the amount of work required to prevent the number of people that are doing things like arv (it's mostly just arv), it's better to just ignore him, and hope he grows up. Consider arv a troll, trolls feed on the anguish of others. By talking to him, you are giving him fuel in which he can inflict his anguish upon you/others. Do not feed him, he will starve without the attention. This will cause him to either explode in a furious attention seeking behavior, or he'll just get bored and move on. He'll likely come back to try again, be persistent. Literally do this very simple task: do not respond or acknowledge him in any way. If someone else is responding/acknowledging him, whisper them (so that arv can't tell) and tell them to ignore him.

XxMiltoniusxX

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 05:12:14 PM »

I have not been aware of Arvidl's continued presence on our server. However, there are some users who are attempting to redeem themselves from their past transgressions

*Cough* me  ;D

I was asked to stay off irc by Yukiiro_Nite and by Rowen2003, so i obeyed. Have not, and will probably never be on it.
Please refrain from using me or Vaeloridor as examples. (Kitzy2011 <---)

Thank you  :D
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Kitzy2011

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 09:28:05 AM »
Considering the amount of damage arv is causing, versus the amount of work required to prevent the number of people that are doing things like arv (it's mostly just arv), it's better to just ignore him, and hope he grows up. Consider arv a troll, trolls feed on the anguish of others. By talking to him, you are giving him fuel in which he can inflict his anguish upon you/others. Do not feed him, he will starve without the attention. This will cause him to either explode in a furious attention seeking behavior, or he'll just get bored and move on. He'll likely come back to try again, be persistent. Literally do this very simple task: do not respond or acknowledge him in any way. If someone else is responding/acknowledging him, whisper them (so that arv can't tell) and tell them to ignore him.
Okay.

I was asked to stay off irc by Yukiiro_Nite and by Rowen2003, so i obeyed. Have not, and will probably never be on it.
Please refrain from using me or Vaeloridor as examples. (Kitzy2011 <---)
For the record:
*Vaeloridor and I
*I
After all, I was deemed to be leader of Running-Around-Correcting-Spelling.

Anyway, forgive me, but I feel as if I specified that you didn't use it very often.
I used you as an example merely to state my point of banned users, seen in the quote below. If that was managed to be misunderstood, my fault.
To be specific, I am referring to Arvidl, mainly, but also Vael and Milt, even if they don't use it much anymore. I don't feel that it's fair.
Art is the weapon.

Rowen2003

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Re: Irc/Arvidl
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 09:36:15 AM »
I was asked to stay off irc by Yukiiro_Nite and by Rowen2003, so i obeyed. Have not, and will probably never be on it.
Thank you.

Please refrain from using me or Vaeloridor as examples. (Kitzy2011 <---)
Her usage of banned members who have used IRC was pertaining the request she was making. Considering that there is a very short list of said members, it's unreasonable for her exclude the only other people that this request would apply to. (even though, as you mentioned, you aren't using IRC any longer, and vael has stopped using IRC entirely after his ban)