Author Topic: Shop Update Suggestion Thread  (Read 3686 times)

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« on: November 06, 2012, 11:14:29 AM »
**Updated to add new items from 1.4.2**

Note: I decided not to use the old thread seeing how it was very old, and the comments attached were no long applicable.

This is my revised list of items that I think would be convenient to have, either because it can take awhile to find the items, or because the items themselves are not obtainable/renewable.
I also added items that have the same ID as other items, but are new (specifically jungle and stonebrick blocks)

renewable :  added for convenience or consistency
renewable + silk touch : items that require silk touch can still be difficult to acquire due to rarity of the item and rarity of the silk touch enchant (eg. Mycelium)
non-renewable : added for convenience and because the item is limited in quantity (some are significantly more limited than others eg. Dragon Egg vs End Stone)
slashed items : items that definitely won't be added to the shop


02    grass (renewable, obtained with silk touch) grass can be created with herbalism, but it will only work on placed blocks. silk touch is required to actually carry grass blocks
Pros: This lets people easily place grass where they want it.
Cons: not very necessary, herbalism can overcome

05:3  jungle planks (renewable)
Pros: Added consistency (since other wood types exist)
Cons: not very rare

06:3  jungle sapling (renewable)
Pros: Added consistency (since other wood types exist)
Cons: not very rare

16    coal ore (non-renewable, silk touch)
Pros: ability to more easily acquire coal ore
Cons: could be used for exploits

17:3  jungle wood (renewable)
Pros: Added consistency (since other wood types exist)
Cons: not very rare

18:3  jungle leaves (renewable)
Pros: Added consistency (since other leaf types exist)
Cons: not very rare

21    lapis lazuli ore (non-renewable, silk touch)
Pros: ability to more easily acquire lapis lazuli ore
Cons: could be used for exploits

30    cobweb (non-renewable, can be only be acquired with high level excavation)
Pros: this item has a lot of fun uses, but is very difficult to acquire
Cons: adding this to the shop kind of takes away the rarity and value of the high excavation required to get it

56    diamond ore (non-renewable, silk touch)
Pros: ability to more easily acquire diamond ore
Cons: could be used for exploits

73    redstone ore (non-renewable, silk touch)
Pros: ability to more easily acquire diamond ore, also would make for really cool paths that light up as you walk over them!
Cons: could be used for exploits

79    ice (renewable, requires silk touch)
Pros: saves on needing to require silk touch, allows people to build larger icy structures
Cons: large icy structures could melt and cause lag


98:2  cracked stone brick (non-renewable)
Pros: make a rare item more obtainable for people to build with
Cons: makes the item less rare, and therefore lessons the desire/accomplishment associated with using the material

98:3  carved stone brick (non-renewable)
Pros: make a rare item more obtainable for people to build with
Cons: makes the item less rare, and therefore lessons the desire/accomplishment associated with using the material

101   iron bars (renewable)
Pros: consistency with fences and glass panes
Cons: not rare

106   vines (renewable)
Pros: consistency with ladders, makes it easier to acquire (even though it isn't terribly difficult)
Cons: not very rare

107   fence gate (renewable)
Pros: easier to get gates for faster building, consistency with fences
Cons: not rare

110   mycelium (renewable, silk touch, very very rare)
Pros: useful material for growing mushrooms, highly sought after material would be significantly more available to everyone
Cons: will drastically diminish the rarity of the material and therefore lesson the desire/accomplishment associated with using the material

111   lily pad (non-renewable, very common in swamps)
Pros: really awesome item for usage around water, it isn't renewable
Cons: it's not impossible to find, just time consuming

112   nether brick (non-renewable)
Pros: more easily access nether-related building materials safely
Cons: makes the item less rare

113   nether brick fence (non-renewable)
Pros: more easily access nether-related building materials safely
Cons: makes the item less rare

121   end stone (non-renewable, obtainable from the end)
Pros: more easily obtain the material without having to go to the end
Cons: makes the item less rare

122   dragon egg (non-renewable, there can only be one)
Pros: decoration. there's only one in a vanilla server
Cons: makes the item drastically less rare, and therefore not valuable.

129   emerald ore (non-renewable, silk touch)
Pros: ability to more easily acquire diamond ore
Cons: could be used for exploits

138   beacon (non-renewable)
Pros: more easily access a very rare item
Cons: makes the item drastically less rare and desirable

139:0 cobble wall (renewable)
Pros: consistency with other fences
Cons: not rare

145:0 anvil (renewable)
Pros: consistency with other work-related blocks (eg. workbench)
Cons: not rare

302   chain helm (renewable)
Pros: more easily access rare armor
Cons: makes the item less rare

303   chain chest (renewable)
Pros: more easily access rare armor
Cons: makes the item less rare

304   chain legs (renewable)
Pros: more easily access rare armor
Cons: makes the item less rare

305   chain boots (renewable)
Pros: more easily access rare armor
Cons: makes the item less rare

326   bucket of water (renewable) this is for convenience
Pros: convenience of getting water when it's not around
Cons: not rare


327   bucket of lava (non-renewable) I'm only adding this to have it on the list, I don't actually want this item in the shop. Lava has very limited uses (for making obsidian)
Pros: consistency with bucket of water.
Cons: it's lava. no one actually likes lava. having easy access to such a horrible material could be a very bad decision.


354   cake (renewable)
Pros: cake is a pain to make
Cons: it's a food item


369   blaze rod (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: allows more people to gain access to potions and wreak havoc

370   ghast tear (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes it too easy to obtain powerful potions

372   nether wart (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes it too easy to obtain potions

375   spider eye (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: could be abused with monster spawners

384   bottle o' enchanting (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire, would make for a very good money sink for rich players
Cons: makes it too easy to gain access to powerful enchants

388   emerald (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: could drastically affect the economy and shop for awhile. (depending on price)

390   flower pot (non-renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes the item less rare

391   carrots (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: it's a food item and component for potions

392   potatoes (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: it's a food item

397:0 skeleton head (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes the item much less rare

397:1 wither skeleton head (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire, would allow for players to more easily summon the wither
Cons: makes the item much less rare. rampant withers could be devastating to towns and spawn. super easy griefing tool

397:2 zombie head (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes the item much less rare

397:3 player head (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: not too rare

397:4 creeper head (renewable)
Pros: easier to acquire
Cons: makes the item less rare


Please consider this:
The easier we make it for Tibs to implement, the more likely it is that he will do it. (that could be from .05% chance to .06%, but it's an increase)
If anyone wants to do the math and calculate the prices for these, that would significantly improve the likeliness of these updates happening.
eg. The price of iron bars should be the cost of buying the iron ore/iron ingots/iron blocks then converted into a stack of iron bars.
So, a stack of iron bars should be 3/8 the cost of a stack of iron ore/ingots.

Thinking about this kind of setup makes me want to have a shop that can have prices that are based on the price of other objects. (In addition to what it already does)
For example: Laenaria buys a stack of a iron bars. Iron bars require 6 iron ingots, so the price would be 3/8 stack of iron ingots/ore. After purchasing the iron bars the shop updates the supply of iron accordingly and adjust prices evenly.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 01:47:03 PM by Rowen2003 »

iancj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Foo: +8/-8
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 05:18:03 PM »
I'd gladly do the math for these, although finding the price for the uncraftable items would be hard (eg. price of water bucket). In my opinion, most of the practical items should be buyable, but not the decorative ones eg. dragon egg. On a related note, who has this server's dragon egg? Yuki?

Fudge

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
  • Foo: +30/-24
  • OFWGKTA
    • Tumblr
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 05:41:21 PM »
I'd love to get some skeleton heads, make it easier to get a whither boss or whatever

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 05:53:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's a mod; by the time I arrived in the nether before 1.4 someone had already been there and modified some of the bedrock around where the dragon was killed. It's possible however that someone else defeated the dragon and a mod arrived between the death (of the dragon) and my discovery, and decided to make the changes I described.

However, prices like the cost of a bucket of water should be at least the cost of 3 iron ingots or 1 bucket. Keep in mind that the prices will fluctuate after the initial setting of the price. I don't think the price of a bucket of water should be much (if any) more than than the cost of the bucket itself. Especially since you can just buy the water/bucket of water and sell for a profit if the prices differ. (It's not difficult to get rid of/obtain water). It may also be better to add the actual water block instead of bucket of water.

most of the practical items should be buyable, but not the decorative ones eg. dragon egg.
While I do agree with this, I also disagree. I respect players' desires to use rare and hard to find/acquire materials as trophies or decorations; other players may not feel that is something they want. Considering that this is a community, I wanted to give the community a chance to have input (obviously, that's why I posted this on the forums) about whether they wanted to be able to buy rare decorative blocks. However, there are only a few purely decorative blocks (eg. Dragon Egg and Flower Pot), while a lot of other blocks have actual purpose (though, other blocks serve the same purpose) they are still considered decorative.

I'd love to get some skeleton heads, make it easier to get a whither boss or whatever
Of course fudge wants the only item with this Con: 'makes the item much less rare. rampant withers could be devastating to towns and spawn. super easy griefing tool'
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 05:56:21 PM by Rowen2003 »

iancj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Foo: +8/-8
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 06:22:34 PM »
I'd like skele heads to be unbuyable, but I think that nether stars would be a nice thing, starting at perhaps 10 or 20 mil apiece?

Fudge

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
  • Foo: +30/-24
  • OFWGKTA
    • Tumblr
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 06:39:13 PM »
Lms if just got smited by ian *lieks own statez </3*

Nether stars should cost 100 mil, to make it rare.

I'm glad you caught my sarcasm rowen lol

Tibsfox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 629
  • Foo: +73/-0
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 06:44:58 PM »
I know the shop needs updating. I won't add food or things that can be used to grief, lava/water/TNT.

iancj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Foo: +8/-8
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 07:47:04 PM »
Lms if just got smited by ian *lieks own statez </3*

How do you check that?
Nether stars should cost 100 mil, to make it rare.
That's a bit much. A reasonably lucky noob could make 100mil in one trip to the nether. I think that's a bit too rare. No one would use them.

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 08:05:18 PM »
Nether stars should cost 100 mil, to make it rare.
I think that's a bit much. 10mil still makes the item very rare.

That's a bit much. A reasonably lucky noob could make 100mil in one trip to the nether. I think that's a bit too rare. No one would use them.
The sell-back price can be nerfed, please see the prices of gunpowder, redstone, and arrows.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:40:12 PM by Rowen2003 »

Laenaria

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Foo: +5/-0
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2012, 04:32:08 AM »
Looked at the current market prices and came up with numbers. The price will be listed like such. Buy (Bundle Buy) Sell (Bundle Sell).

02    grass
Based on dirt + seed 217.06 (13,891.84)   196.26 (12,560.64)

05:3  jungle planks
Based on normal planks: 108.95 (6,972.80)   98.06 (6,275.84)

06:3  jungle sapling
Based on Birch and Spruce saplings 167.73 (10,734.72)   147.60 (9,446.4)

16    coal ore
Based on coal 147.92 (9,466.88)   130.17 (8,330.88)

17:3  jungle wood
Based on normal wood 434.82 (27,828.48)   408.73 (26,158.72)

18:3  jungle leaves
Based on normal leaves 7.32 (468.48)   6.44(412.16)

21    lapis lazuli ore
Based on lapis lazuli 835.46 (53,469.44)   776.98 (49,726.72)   

30    cobweb
No basis

56    diamond ore
Based on diamond 119,837.73 (7,669,614.72) 91076.68 (5,828,907.52)

73    redstone ore
Based on redstone    902.76 (57,776.64)   54.17 (3,466.88)

79    ice
No basis

98:2  cracked stone brick
Based on stone brick 457.23   (29,262.72)   429.80(27,507.2)

98:3  carved stone brick
Based on stone brick 457.23   (29,262.72)   429.80(27,507.2)

101   iron bars
Based on ironingot 9,988.10 (639,238.32) 7,590.95 (485,820.96)
   
106   vines
No basis

107   fence gate
Basid on stick and woodplank 388.82 (24,884.48)   356.16 (22,794.24)
   
110   mycelium
No basis

111   lily pad
No basis

112   nether brick
Based on netherbrickstair 367.14 (23,496.96)   356.13 (22,792.11)

113   nether brick fence
Based on netherbrickstair 367.14 (23,496.96)   356.13 (22,792.11)

114   nether brick stairs
Already in store

121   end stone
No basis
122   dragon egg
No basis

129   emerald ore
No basis due to nature of villager trading

138   beaconNo basis

139:0 cobble wall
Based on cobblestone 7.66 (490.24)   7.58 (485.12)

145:0 anvil
Based on ironingot 825,682.83 (52,843,701.12)   627,518.74 (40,161,199.36)

302   chain helm
No basis due to nature of villager trading

303   chain chest
No basis due to nature of villager trading

304   chain legs
No basis due to nature of villager trading

305   chain boots
No basis due to nature of villager trading

326   bucket of water
Based on bucket 1028.74   905.29

327   bucket of lava
No basis as lava is finite where water is not.

354   cake
No accurate basis as eggs not sold in market. Would be at least 21,482.35   20,390.97

369   blaze rod
No basis

370   ghast tear
No basis

372   nether wart
No basis

375   spider eye
No basis

384   bottle o' enchanting
No basis

388   emerald
No basis due to nature of villager trading

390   flower pot
Based on brickblock 255.255 (16,336.32)   224.625 (14,376.00)   

391   carrots
No basis

392   potatoes
No basis

397:0 skeleton head
No basis

397:1 wither skeleton head
No basis

397:2 zombie head
No basis

397:3 player head
No basis (but some heads are much easier to get than others)

397:4 creeper head
No basis

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2012, 01:46:01 PM »
Lae, thank you for the calculations. Here's my input:

02    grass
Based on dirt + seed 217.06 (13,891.84)   196.26 (12,560.64)
I think grass blocks should be a bit more expensive (maybe add the cost of 3 diamonds) because it requires silk touch to actually acquire the block

30    cobweb
drops 1 string when destroyed. I think the price should be at least 1 string if not more (like 4 string)

79    ice
Going to remove Ice, it can too easily be used to create water, which can be used for griefing.

106   vines
have essentially the same functionality as ladders, should probably be based on that

110   mycelium
similar to grass.. I think it should be stack of dirt + stack of red mushroom + stack of brown mushroom + 3 diamonds (to account for the silk touch required)

111   lily pad
I think 50k-100k per stack

121   end stone
same as nether brick

122   dragon egg
10m per egg. if at all

138   beacon
5 glass + 3 obsidian + nether star(3 wither skull + 4 soul sand)
we'll need to define wither skulls for this. but there are suggestions already for a price

369   blaze rod
blaze rod can be used for brewing and for making fire charges. I believe that brewing should still be a gated feature (for seasoned players) and therefore should have a higher cost.
blaze rods are a mob drop however, and should have a low sale price. I think this should be based on gunpowder

370   ghast tear
ghast tear is used for brewing, i think the price should be based on gunpowder

372   nether wart
i think the price of nether wart should also be based on gunpowder. this deters the selling of nether wart (which isn't necessarily something we want to do), it may be best (if possible) to prevent lowering the cost, while the sale changes (from buying/selling) or possibly adjust the gap, so that even when nether sells for the same as slime(pretty much nothing), it's still at least 1m per stack

375   spider eye
gunpowder

384   bottle o' enchanting
see the below calculation

391   carrots
these are instantly eatable, though very weak in regards to the amount of hunger they grant.
because these are food, it's very likely we won't have them added. they aren't very useful as a form of food, but they are still food (like zombie flesh)
will probably remove
if not: price same as mushrooms/melon seeds/pumpkin seeds/seeds (whatever is most expensive or the sum of each)

392   potatoes
these are instantly eatable, though very weak in regards to the amount of hunger they grant.
same as carrots


villager trading calculations can be based on items that are available on the shop, that can be sold to villagers for emeralds

sells for 1 emerald:
16-23 coal/charcoal
8-9 gold ingot
18-21 wheat
14-21 wool
4-5 diamond
8-9 iron ingot
19-29 paper
12-14 book
1 written book

cost of emeralds per item:
5-6 chain helm
11-14 chain chest
9-10 chain legs
5-6 chain boots
2-4 bottle o' enchanting

so, I think we should calculate the cost of emeralds to be an average cost of an emerald amongst the items that can be sold (i'm not going to include other items that are on the shop that can be used to make the following)
for example:
lets say:
coal costs 50k for a stack
gold ingots cost 7m for a stack
wheat costs 50k for a stack
wool costs 20k for a stack
diamonds cost 10m for a stack
iron ingots cost 5m for a stack
paper costs 50k for a stack
books cost 500k for a stack
written books cost 10k ea (640,000 for a stack, if they stacked)

Please note, the above calculations are based on Wild-Ass-Guesses (WAG's) for the actual cost of the stacks of items (because I have no idea what they are atm)

assuming it's the worst conversion possible
coal has the Cost Per Emerald (CPE) of 17k
gold ingot has the CPE of 984k
wheat has the CPE of 16k
wool has the CPE of 6k
diamond has the CPE of 781k
iron has the CPE of 703k
paper has the CPE of 22k
books have the CPE 109k
written book has the CPE of 10k

that means, to start off emerald cost would be sum(coal, gold, wheat, wool, diamond, iron, paper, books, written book)/9 = 293k (if i did my math correctly) per emerald
I think that this is a good starting number for emeralds to be, while all of the resources balance out amongst each other (including emeralds).
This will raise the prices on coal, wheat, wool, paper, books and written books(even though they're not on the shop, but the parts are) and would likely lower the prices on diamond, iron, and gold

fortunately, our shop has the supply/demand balancing feature, that makes it actually function similar to a real economy. if the market is flooded with a particular good, the prices drop. and likewise if the demand is high, the prices soar. so, depending on how our server reacts to these, we'll see a price stabilize for emeralds.
also, using the price of emeralds we can calculate the costs of items that are only purchased with emeralds:

cost of emeralds per item: (also assuming worst conversion)
5-6 chain helm (1,758,000)
11-14 chain chest (4,102,000)
9-10 chain legs (2,930,000)
5-6 chain boots (1,758,000)
2-4 bottle o' enchanting (1,172,000)

Hope this helps.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 01:59:12 PM by Rowen2003 »

iancj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Foo: +8/-8
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 04:34:21 PM »
so, I think we should calculate the cost of emeralds to be an average cost of an emerald amongst the items that can be sold (i'm not going to include other items that are on the shop that can be used to make the following)
for example:
lets say:
coal costs 8k for a stack
gold ingots cost 4.5m for a stack
wheat costs 30k for a stack
wool costs 80k for a stack
diamonds cost 6m for a stack
iron ingots cost 1.5m for a stack
paper costs 30k for a stack
books cost 500k for a stack
written books cost 10k ea (640,000 for a stack, if they stacked)

Please note, the above calculations are based on Wild-Ass-Guesses (WAG's) for the actual cost of the stacks of items (because I have no idea what they are atm)
http://ssss.me/shop/ I don't mean to be a stickler, but 20k =/= 80k. Also, under no circumstances would I pay more than a few hundered thousand for 2-4 enchanting bottles.

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2012, 04:42:39 PM »
http://ssss.me/shop/ I don't mean to be a stickler, but 20k =/= 80k. Also, under no circumstances would I pay more than a few hundered thousand for 2-4 enchanting bottles.

Please read my entire post before correcting me on something I have already addressed:
Please note, the above calculations are based on Wild-Ass-Guesses (WAG's) for the actual cost of the stacks of items (because I have no idea what they are atm)

Also note, the 2-4 number is the number of emeralds it costs per bottle, not the number returned for the amount given.
The format was this:
<lowest_cost_in_emeralds>-<highest_cost_in_emeralds> <name_of_object_being_purchased> (<price_to_buy_using_iconomy_according_to_my_guessing>)
eg.
2-4 bottle o' enchanting (1,172,000)
Which means, it costs 2-4 emeralds (depending on the current trade from a villager) for one bottle o' enchanting. Using my wild-ass-guess to the value for each emerald, that would estimate the value of the bottles being 1.1m per bottle.

I didn't say it was cost effective. And I also didn't say everyone would want to do it. I did say that the numbers I used to derive the price of the emeralds were complete guesses.
Keep this in mind: you pay for convenience.
Don't expect to be getting super good deals off the market.

This site:  http://ssss.me/shop/  'has been denied because of its content categorization: Suspicious'
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 04:47:27 PM by Rowen2003 »

iancj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Foo: +8/-8
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2012, 08:20:55 PM »
Was my post deleted? I don't wanna type it again.

Rowen2003

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
  • Foo: +43/-9
Re: Shop Update Suggestion Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2012, 08:39:03 PM »
Was my post deleted? I don't wanna type it again.
no, it's right here..